Hey folks!

I was talking with Theo a bit ago and we were discussing the titles and belts in XWF.

Basically, we agree that some of them are ugly as shit and want to change them - but I don't want to just go swapping things out without getting an idea of what the fed as a whole would prefer.

What I think would be fun to do would be a segment either on Warfare of War Games where some of the champs get brought to the ring and awarded brand new title belts.

Here's the titles I am thinking and the logic for and against each:


1. Tag Team Titles - I really just think they look cartoony and ugly and stand out too much from the more normal looking ones. This isn't really controversial, we have some ideas of what belts to use. I doubt anyone will mind.


2. TV Title - I think it looks like ass. It's one of the only remaning graphics from the "old" days (not super old, but KINDA old - like me!). We could just do a new belt or we could change the name of the title as well. The concept behind the TV belt was always that it got defended on ever Savage (because it's TV!) whic at the time was every week - this was supposed to make it really hard to keep the belt for long because you'd get worn out. Holding it for 10 weeks or so would give you the chance to trade the title for a Uni shot. Now that Savage is every 2 weeks instead, it really is kin of a moot stipulation that's never even been talked about. I do like the 15 minute time limit because it's a great plot device.

Thoughts on the TV?


3. Hart Title - Ugly. It's a homemade belt because of it's ties to Owen Hart, which makes it one of the older titles in XWF, maybe one of the originals? I'll be honest - I am NOT a fan of tying it to a real wrestler name, even though I *DO* like keeping it unique in that it only gets defended in traditional matches rather than X-Treme or other wild stip matches. I always thought of it in terms of "Bret Hart wouldn't ever do flaming tables." So like a regular cage match or ladder match, sure, but nothing too wild.

I think if we change this belt style, we have to change the name - because there's no way to make a good looking version of it. What are y'all's thoughts here? What would be a good name if we did change it? What other ways could we differentiate it from the other titles beyond it just being the "Warfare Title?"


4. Shooting Star - I made this one look ugly on purpose because I like things that are corny. We'll change it. What are the general feelings on this title as a whole? I know it is a little convoluted, and can feel a little unneeded. No one ever really seems to be into the idea of a "women only" title these days. Do you like it? Hate it? Tell me!!!!


The Uni changes for every champion. I like the X , it's not that old really I changed it 5 years back I think? Maybe less?

Anarchy and Internet are good. Freestyle is the newest and I love watching it spin, because again, I'm dumb.

Anyway, let me know!

I do agree that we should normalize the art styles/aesthetics of each non-Uni belt so that we have a more consistent feeling overall. However, I actually really like how the tags look and that's where I would personally start from and try and go more towards. That said, I do have some other thoughts I'd like to share.

1. TV Title: I enjoy the color scheme of it, but it really could go for a reboot. Maybe something that represents Savage a bit better.

2. Hart Title: I think you could redesign this without changing the name or concept of the belt. It's a difficult subject to approach due to its long history, however I think if you're set on replacing it, the logical choice is to name it after an XWF veteran, maybe someone who represented Warfare/the Hart back in the early 2000's. The XWF is very lucky to have such a long history. I say we lean into it. Could even have a poll to decide who it's named after, curated by staff prior, of course.

3. Shooting Star: I unironically dig this title, but I totally understand a redesign if it was meant to be a joke. I would enjoy seeing it keep its striking and unique design. I love having a division specifically for female characters. It might not always be relevant or feasible given the era, but woth the talent pool we currently have, it assists in showcasing more of our community and that's really important to me.

"You can't run from yourself."

I wouldn't say it was meant to be a joke, but I was very much expecting it to be the least popular design - even if I myself thought it was kinda cool. It's shaped like a star, man! Rad!

I think I've said before that the TV should be the Winged Eagle, just a good looking classic design.

I hate the look of the Hart title, I understand it has history but eh. It's ugly.

I made the shooting star title and I die a little inside every time I see it, I remember telling Lane to make the image as small as possible so no one can see the details enough.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually LIKE the belt designs. The TV looks old school, which is fitting considering the belt itself is sort of an old school one(seeing as how you don't really see TV Titles IRL anymore)

I get where you're coming from with the Hart one, though, but if it's the tie into a real wrestler that's the problem, call it something like the Pure Title and modify it a bit. Maybe keep the heart, to symbolize the previous belt's history, as well as symbolize the Heart of a Wrestler or something.

The Tags remind me of the old RAW ones from the early to mid-2000s, which I like, but can also see why you'd think they're bland.

No opinion on the Shooting Star, was never a fan of the belt to begin with(since there's really no need to divide up sexes if we already do intergender matches anyway) so I say do whatever to it lol

June 2019 XWF Superstar of the Month
2019 Relentless Fishing Contest Winner
1x XWF World Heavyweight Champion
1x bWo World Heavyweight Champion [despite what Miss Furry or James J. Dildo says]
1x NWF World Heavyweight Champion
2x XWF Xtreme Champion [current]
2x XWF TV Champion
1x XWF Internet Champion
1x NWF World Tag Team Champion (w/Slim)
1x NWF Xtreme Champion
1x NLCW Slamfest Champion
1x LCW Hardcore Champion
3x WWF X-Division Champion
1x WWF World Tag Team Champion (w/Seth Flash)
1x WWF Dark Champion
1x WWF TV Champion
1x EGW Fury Champion
3x XWF Federweight Champion
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1x 420* Cruiserweight Champion
2x CMW Hardcore Champion
1x XHW T.V. Champion
1x WXC Hardcore Champion
1x XPW U.S. Champion
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The main issue with the tags is that they are just a drawing. I want to replace them with a more real looking belt photo like the others have.

The TV Title as the Winged Eagle could work - I wonder if we keep the name there or not though... it feels a little dated. Even if we used the same belt as it is now, it needs to be refreshed to look nicer.

The Hart... yeah. Not really a fan of it. It's half photo and half clipart. It's connected to "real" wrestling, which is annoying to me. I'd have changed it forever ago except that it's got such a long history.

I agree with all of these titles you’re calling ugly. You don’t really think about it until you do, and yes -they’re butt ugly. The Hart title specifically looks like a fake women’s championship.

Television Title- with all of the current Fed rules still applicable, why not make Savage more like ECW programming? Just with the way the show is structured, more hardcore stips, and change the Television title to the Hardcore Championship? Since the RP limits are easier, it gets you a claim to an Extreme Title match after a certain amount of time.

Hart Title- Bring back the IC? With a new pic obviously. This would serve as more of the “wrestlers championship” on a more traditional wrestling show, Warfare. Where the RP limits are more intense, this one should get you a shot at the Uni after a certain amount of time.

Shooting Star- ... I love/hate it? There just aren’t that many female characters challenging for the belt, which makes the idea of trading the belt in for a Uni shot really dumb. If we’re bound and determined to have that extra title, maybe we can make this a new television championship. A title that HAS to be defended on both programs in beer those programs rules, this would justify the Uni match trade-in.

Just some ideas. I’m glad y’all are discussing changing these pics and belts overall. The Hart Title especially. It just doesn’t make sense having a belt named after a guy who in “our realm” never existed.

4x XTreme Champion    (1x as Misty Waters)
2x Tag Team Champion (w/ Vita Valenteen, w/ Charlie Nickles)
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3x Television Champion

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Hart Title alternative:

Tech Title, since it's tied to style Bret wrestled, which is the technical style, which as you've stated, was more on the lines of the moves and techniques that is more mat based and strategy based to try and win. Y'know, "I need to use my submission, so I'm going to wear this part so he's more susceptible to being submitted."

Could have a picture of a small heart made of pink edges and black middle to show its lineage, or vice versa, depending on who you like more, Owen or Bret, but a figure of someone putting another guy in a headlock instead of the symbol for the Harts.

It sounds stupid, I know, best I could think of.

It's really the only one I have an opinion on, to be honest. Then again, I don't mind the name and it being tied to real life wrestlers.

Tag titles look weird compared to the rest, almost like they're less clean. A gold palette swap could do a world of good. Looks too bronze to my eyes.

Shooting Star title smacks me in the face of the Butterfly belt in WWE. "It's a Women's title, it's got to look girly!" If our characters were real people, they'd want titles like the ones they have now in WWE, or like the Universal. Though, I don't think there's enough female characters to warrant its continued existence, tbh. Especially since they're going after the other titles instead.

I’m

T.V. Title- Yeah that could use a change. I will admit I am a sucker for the old school titles. I always loved the N.W.A. T.V. belt, and also I will admit. I was never fan of the Winged Eagle. I liked the Big Eagle more so but eh.

Hart Title- Yeah I would say it's time for a change for that, make it more XWF and less of a real wrestler it's base on. Since as far as I know in the XWF Universe. WWE or AEW or TNA don't exist. So that would mean the Hart family doesn't. I get why it was made but I think it's time for it become something new.

Tag Titles-Again, yes those need to change. I'm not a fan of their look. Any other tag titles be better just don't use those horrible WWE ones that they have now lol. Dear God those are ugly as fuck. I like the AWA, NWA and SMW ones.

Shooting Star- Oh my, that title. I don't know where it's from but it is the ugliest belt I've ever seen lol. I don't know why there is a woman's only title. Big D is right, we don't do the whole same gender vs same gender. So I don't know what's the point of it to be honest but if you wanna keep for women vs women only. I'm cool with that but just please change the look of it lol

I do like these titles. Would this "upgrade" be enough to avoid a complete redesign?

Let me also say, while the Hart Title was NAMED after Owen Hart OOC, it was never officially tied to him in character. A long time ago, one of the champs (I think it was Hardhead) said that the Hart Title was named as such because it's presented to the wrestler who shows the most Heart, but the engraver spelled the name wrong on the belt and the XWF was too cheap to fix it.

I’m

The tag titles are ugly and need updating. I am hoping we go with the concept Lane and I discussed cause I think it's uber sexy.

The TV title isn't that ugly to me, it's just very meh. I do like what Dylan was saying about rebranding it and tying it into the show somehow. Though I'm not sure the ECW concept works here since we have the Xtreme title but the general idea is pretty solid. Just have to figure out what the Savage concept is and then go from there.

I think you can take a similar approach to the Hart. Like Lane, I hate the idea of a title named after a real wrestler in a CAW fed it just makes zero sense to me. I have always been a fan of the IC title but so many people seem to dislike that idea. So a total rebranding could work here. Like the TV, maybe tying it into Warfare. Warfare has been around as long as I have. Savage has not so I feel like if either title is going to be tied to a show/concept, Warfare is the most likely one to stick.

Shooting Star could disappear all together imo.

Uni stays the same since the default one is fine and the perk of the champ being able to change the look is solid. Xtreme title also works as is imo.

The C show titles are whatever. I treat them like I do the show, I pretend like they don't exist.

Oh this is much better.

(07-14-2021, 09:19 AM)Centurion Said:

(07-14-2021, 09:27 AM)Miss Fury Said:


I do like these titles. Would this "upgrade" be enough to avoid a complete redesign?

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are flush with cash.

You get an upgrade. And you get an upgrade and you get an upgrade.

Everyone gets an upgrade.

I actually dig the WWE Tag Titles, I liked them when they were copper "pennies" more than the silver versions with red/blue straps now, though. I know I am in the minority of people for liking them.

As for the Shooting Star, that's a STARDOM Title belt. Joshi promotion. They have a few different ones but all pretty similar. IDK I thought it was neat and unique.

(07-14-2021, 09:20 AM)Felix Jones Said: T.V. Title- Yeah that could use a change. I will admit I am a sucker for the old school titles. I always loved the N.W.A. T.V. belt, and also I will admit. I was never fan of the Winged Eagle. I liked the Big Eagle more so but eh.

Hart Title- Yeah I would say it's time for a change for that, make it more XWF and less of a real wrestler it's base on. Since as far as I know in the XWF Universe. WWE or AEW or TNA don't exist. So that would mean the Hart family doesn't. I get why it was made but I think it's time for it become something new.

Tag Titles-Again, yes those need to change. I'm not a fan of their look. Any other tag titles be better just don't use those horrible WWE ones that they have now lol. Dear God those are ugly as fuck. I like the AWA, NWA and SMW ones.

Shooting Star- Oh my, that title. I don't know where it's from but it is the ugliest belt I've ever seen lol. I don't know why there is a woman's only title. Big D is right, we don't do the whole same gender vs same gender. So I don't know what's the point of it to be honest but if you wanna keep for women vs women only. I'm cool with that but just please change the look of it lol

(07-14-2021, 09:33 AM)Theo Pryce Said:

(07-14-2021, 09:27 AM)Miss Fury Said:


I do like these titles. Would this "upgrade" be enough to avoid a complete redesign?

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are flush with cash.

You get an upgrade. And you get an upgrade and you get an upgrade.

Everyone gets an upgrade.

What if I bedazzled it? Imagine all the pretty gem stones!

(07-14-2021, 09:33 AM)Theo Pryce Said:

(07-14-2021, 09:27 AM)Miss Fury Said:


I do like these titles. Would this "upgrade" be enough to avoid a complete redesign?

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are flush with cash.

You get an upgrade. And you get an upgrade and you get an upgrade.

Everyone gets an upgrade.

Hard to upgrade perfection:


Thanks, though.

(07-14-2021, 09:38 AM)"Loverboy" Vinnie Lane Said: I actually dig the WWE Tag Titles, I liked them when they were copper "pennies" more than the silver versions with red/blue straps now, though. I know I am in the minority of people for liking them.

As for the Shooting Star, that's a STARDOM Title belt. Joshi promotion. They have a few different ones but all pretty similar. IDK I thought it was neat and unique.

(07-14-2021, 09:20 AM)Felix Jones Said: T.V. Title- Yeah that could use a change. I will admit I am a sucker for the old school titles. I always loved the N.W.A. T.V. belt, and also I will admit. I was never fan of the Winged Eagle. I liked the Big Eagle more so but eh.

Hart Title- Yeah I would say it's time for a change for that, make it more XWF and less of a real wrestler it's base on. Since as far as I know in the XWF Universe. WWE or AEW or TNA don't exist. So that would mean the Hart family doesn't. I get why it was made but I think it's time for it become something new.

Tag Titles-Again, yes those need to change. I'm not a fan of their look. Any other tag titles be better just don't use those horrible WWE ones that they have now lol. Dear God those are ugly as fuck. I like the AWA, NWA and SMW ones.

Shooting Star- Oh my, that title. I don't know where it's from but it is the ugliest belt I've ever seen lol. I don't know why there is a woman's only title. Big D is right, we don't do the whole same gender vs same gender. So I don't know what's the point of it to be honest but if you wanna keep for women vs women only. I'm cool with that but just please change the look of it lol

I totally thought that belt was just like a custom made belt for something lol. I'm not up to date on Japanese wrestling companies lol. I just looked over them and I think it's just that the leather is white. I like the Goddess Of STARDOM belt more than the all white one lol but the Shooting Star title belt can stick around. I'm whatever about it. Since it's only for the ladies. That's cool with me yo

My opinion. The Hart title design is by far my favorite but being it's the Warfare belt and Warfare is technically the A show. Do away with it and call it the Universal but keep Hart stipulations. Level the playing field a little.

Xtreme. It looks like tinfoil and I dislike everything about it
It shits on all the other belts, we have a brief case PPV. It's pointless. My opinion, I know its not shared, but I would get rid of it or remove the briefcase reward and just make it the 24/7 title.

TV - Tag Belts - I'm meh on those. Change can't hurt but they do t look bad. Remove the stip from the TV and just let it be Savages belt.

The Shooting Star - Women vs Men in combat really only exist in fake wrestling and our fictional world. Yes, there are examples, but it doesn't happen. In our fantasy world I get it's not needed and should probably be done away with. The stipulation like the Xtreme is unfair in my opinion but no two belts are defended the same so what really is fair. I'm partial to it obviously, I've redesigned it for Atty already so seeing it go would suck, but in the context of fantasy I get the gripe.

Internet title looks cool but I've seen the same design elsewhere. No offense to bwo I like the design of Internet better. It's a dumb belt honestly and Iove it because Twitter.

Anarchy Title - I kinda like it. Change can't hurt.

You don't like the X Title???

The Shooting Star championship was dope when we had more women wrestlers, but our lady wrassler roster seems to have thinned quite a bit. Also, I'm not sure it was ever a great idea to have a literal S.S. title.........lol.

Hart title is very ugly and also very pretty because Thad made it. If you're gonna change up the hart and tv belt they should pry happen at the same time and both get new names and new concepts and stips entirely. Don't halfass a midcard belt change just do it all the way imho.

I actually like the tag belts.

Bring back the heavymetalweight belt u limpy.

1. The Hart Championships belt is one of the oldest belts in the fed, rebranding it would kinda suck. However a new title design would be dope.

2. I'm going to carry over the same thing for the TV Title. Big fan of the rules of the TV. 15 mins of fame, work horse, so on, so forth.

3. Tag straps need a face lift I think we all agree on that.

I'm not particularly attached to the Hart Title. It was always supposed to be an up and comers belt, so I found it interesting to see the prestigious spot it wound up in today. What I do like about it is that it’s different than what we see in real feds (even with the tie to Owen Hart). That's where belts like an Intercontinental/US/Television aren't as interesting to me. I think it's part of why the Canadian Title was more prominent for a long while here than the US was. It was different. If we can come up with a different name altogether, I think that'd be great. Mind you, if the Anarchy Title is just named after the show, is that a precedent we want to follow? Probably not.

The Shooting Star can go, in my opinion. Maybe it did at one point, but it doesn't make sense in the context of our fed now, and I do think we have too many titles.

I don't really have an opinion on the designs because the worst of them is still better than I can produce.

I know someone raised the X-Treme. I don't know when the current rules for a briefcase were put in place, but has there been a change in show frequency or anything since? If so, could be worth reviewing criteria for a briefcase, though I see the point about us having a PPV event for that anyway. It used to basically be like the Heavymetalweight was, but also defended on shows. That would be a serious dip in prestige, which I don't really Iike because it's cool that it links into the name of the fed.

While we’re talking big picture, and I know this is rich coming from me, but the Uni Title rp limits are stupid and out-of-sync with this hobby in general. Yes that makes it unique, but I wouldn't blame outsiders looking at that and going "nope, not that place". Just my opinion there, and I know I've already told Vinnie and Theo my thoughts on that before. Feel free to disregard.

(07-14-2021, 01:37 PM)ALIAS Said: While we’re talking big picture, and I know this is rich coming from me, but the Uni Title rp limits are stupid and out-of-sync with this hobby in general. Yes that makes it unique, but I wouldn't blame outsiders looking at that and going "nope, not that place". Just my opinion there, and I know I've already told Vinnie and Theo my thoughts on that before. Feel free to disregard.

FWIW I 100% agree with this and have for some time now.

Quote:I think it's part of why the Canadian Title was more prominent for a long while here than the US was.

Somewhere Cent just got a boner.

Regarding the X title, when I first got here in like 2013 it was a 24/7 title like it is today and if you held the title for X number of weeks, I wanna say like 5 or 6, you got a case. Then we enacted the Gilmour rule because Gilly won the title and then despite always being booked on like every show every week he suddenly went into hiding. And as such we then required a number of successful defenses along with a length of the reign in order to win a case. Since then I think we increased both the length the reign had to be and the number of successful defenses in order to get a case while also limiting how many other cases we gave out via other events so as to limit how many cases we had hanging around.

I think we are in a good place right now. I know most of the recent Uni Champs have won the title via cash in but really we haven't given many cases out via the X title so I think that has worked itself out over time.

I personally don't see the need to change the X title in anyway other than maybe a redesign but personally I like the design but it's not something i'd argue over if people wanted to change it.

It does seem like there is a pretty significant amount of people who prefer to keep the Hart title name even if we do redesign it. I can accept that even though as I said earlier, I hate the name. I do however thing that we should tie some kind of of title specific stipulations to it. Like we do the TV. Though that title's stips/perks might need to be revisited because the title is not defended weekly. Back when I first started here that title came with a Champs advantage in which the Champ could do 2 rps to every 1 from the challenger. That rule would not really make sense in todays climate.

As for the Uni Rules, while I personally do not love the unlimited rule there is nothing that stops the champ or challenger from trying to negotiate something else.

I think we can all agree the tag titles need a huge face lift.

The Hart title could use a face lift as well. It just has so much prestige that its kinda hard to change the name. I mean we just had a podcast about it and the people talking about highly put it over. Cent gave it a pretty damn good canon reason why its name what it is. Lane could always say after all these years XWF had the money to have the name changed to the correct spelling while it gets a face lift.

Last bit from me, and I’ll shut up-

I really hope both the TV and Hart are rebranded. The TV made sense being a TV title/workhorse title when it was actually a weekly show, now it’s just a baby Hart title. The Hart, I’m just not a fan, outside of its history I’m not really sure that it has much of an identity. I would like to see this new era of the XWF start some of its own history with some new titles.

(07-14-2021, 02:52 PM)Dolly Waters Said: Last bit from me, and I’ll shut up-

I really hope both the TV and Hart are rebranded. The TV made sense being a TV title/workhorse title when it was actually a weekly show, now it’s just a baby Hart title. The Hart, I’m just not a fan, outside of its history I’m not really sure that it has much of an identity. I would like to see this new era of the XWF start some of its own history with some new titles.

What if the TV title was defended on every show? Or 2 of the 3 shows? Keep the rules the same for the title regardless of what show you defend on?

I'm in favor of changing them all. Hart title is crap (bring back the IC, or do something like North American title?) TV is okay but its what it is. X title, holy fuck is that thang ugly. Shooting Star? It looks like it was a patchwork design put together from the bargain bin at Five Below.

Actually, I like the tag belts.

I'm not really a fan of the 15-min time limit deal, but it works if we had criteria attached to the belt (this could be behind the curtain, not necessarily for everyone to see) that leads to a lot more time limit draws.

Just a couple additional points: I personally absolutely hate how holding one title for X amount of time leads to getting a shot at another one. I think thats a played out idea. IMO, if you want title shots, get the fuck involved instead of just having random matches now and then. A lot of those guidelines were instituted by the previous regime.

With the exception of the Xtreme leading to a potential 24/7 briefcase of course.

Felix you dummy, if real world companies didn't exist in the XWF Universe, how did we have Stone Cold's, Jeff Hardy's, Diesel's, a whole nWo angle, Paul Heyman etc etc etc?

(07-14-2021, 04:40 PM)Thaddeus Duke Said: Felix you dummy, if real world companies didn't exist in the XWF Universe, how did we have Stone Cold's, Jeff Hardy's, Diesel's, a whole nWo angle, Paul Heyman etc etc etc?

I hate that you assholes did that.

(07-14-2021, 04:43 PM)ALIAS Said: I hate that you assholes did that.

I know

(07-14-2021, 04:40 PM)Thaddeus Duke Said: Just a couple additional points: I personally absolutely hate how holding one title for X amount of time leads to getting a shot at another one. I think thats a played out idea. IMO, if you want title shots, get the fuck involved instead of just having random matches now and then. A lot of those guidelines were instituted by the previous regime.

With the exception of the Xtreme leading to a potential 24/7 briefcase of course.

Felix you dummy, if real world companies didn't exist in the XWF Universe, how did we have Stone Cold's, Jeff Hardy's, Diesel's, a whole nWo angle, Paul Heyman etc etc etc?

I figured they were alternate versions of the real world ones LOL

Yeah some of our belts need changed here are my favs




Xtreme keys could be defenses



Hart

I have an idea. We do pageant sashes instead. Easy to make. Easy to customize and everybody wears belts over their shoulder already anyway.

I hated it too. The only exception being Diesel, because I really like the weird "it's him but he's got brain damage and still thinks it's 1995" gimmick.

(07-14-2021, 04:43 PM)ALIAS Said:

(07-14-2021, 04:40 PM)Thaddeus Duke Said: Felix you dummy, if real world companies didn't exist in the XWF Universe, how did we have Stone Cold's, Jeff Hardy's, Diesel's, a whole nWo angle, Paul Heyman etc etc etc?

I hate that you assholes did that.

Sooo this is kinda ll over the place.

I think the consensus is:

A) Give the tags a new look. - definitely
B) Fuck off with the SS Title - we probably will.
C) At minimum give the Hart and TV a new look. - I was really into the idea of a Transatlantic Title and then Gator called it "Trans" and ruined it.

To touch on a couple other things mentioned:

We have dramatically reduced the 24/7 briefcase stuff. It was a peeve of mine that there were always like 5 out there at any time. Now we have 1 event per year where you can get one and 1 other method that SHOULD be fairly difficult to achieve if we are booking things properly. That's why it has to be an "official" defense and not just some random matches against people you know you'll win against.

The unlimited option for the Uni is going to stay - it's a nod to the way things were before and a way to make getting the big gold more difficult/more of a real achievement. That said, you don't HAVE to always use the unlimited rules. Unless stated otherwise, you are welcome to ask for a limit. It's Champion's Choice. Our version of the "champion's advantage." Only in big show main events would we likely insist on doing the unlimited rules. Now, go drop 10 more against Atty!

Show me on the doll where I touched you.