As you all know, a lot goes into these shows.

What I have seen a lot of lately is a disparity in quality not only between Savage and Warfare but also just between what I would like to be putting out for you all compared to what is actually hitting the airwaves.

I'm wondering if it might be in our best interests for the time being to suspend Savage as a weekly show and move Warfare back into a weekly rotation. We'd just have one show a week then, but it would be larger since it would be the only one to opt into.

I think we might be able to see a clearer picture of lower/midrange/top level card matches that way also, since a lot of times I have a situation where Universal Champion Chris Chaos opts into Savage and I don't have an opponent of his caliber to pair him with.

Just a thought. I'd like to hear what others have to say about it. Obviously, once there is a stronger GM and writing team it would be simple to bring the second show back.

What do you all think?

Personally, I'm partial to having both shows because sometimes I simply like having a 3 RP limit for a match. Then I don't have to worry about posting up 8 in a week if I'm busy all week. So if there's any ways to retain that, I would be happy.

(01-10-2017, 08:25 AM)Thomas Nixon Said: Personally, I'm partial to having both shows because sometimes I simply like having a 3 RP limit for a match. Then I don't have to worry about posting up 8 in a week if I'm busy all week. So if there's any ways to retain that, I would be happy.

That's a really good point and something that I'd have to find a way to retain, as it is a big part of why Savage exists in the first place.

Obviously the TV Title matches would still operate that way. I would probably incorporate something like the "Savage Hour" or something similar, populated by matches with those limits. Great feedback.

I'm for it. I think a big reason we had split shows to begin with was regarding the content of the show and roleplays. Now, I don't think anyone really has any issues with the content or how their characters are treated and used on shows. I think it's possible to segregate those that still want to use the RP limits Savage had. You can ask for that stipulation anytime for a match anyway. Maybe utilize the "Warfare, Savage, Badass, and such" character setting to how you want the character booked still. Plus, it can always be mentioned when opting in.

I think Nixon made a good point, but I think you (Vinnie) and Doc had good suggestions. If there is still a way to incorporate the option for a limit, but also be able to go no limit as well, then I'd be down to drop a show until we can get things back on track. In my experience the winter is always slow in the efedding world.

There's a general manager opening? I miss writing results and segments.

(01-10-2017, 10:20 AM)Seraphina Said: There's a general manager opening? I miss writing results and segments.

You don't have to GM to write up some results and help with the cards. We're always reaching out to people to join our writing team. If you're interested in writing some matches give us a call!

I'm on board for whatever decision is made towards card regularity. Personally my opinion has always been the more the merrier but I agree that dropping one show (for now) may give a boost to overall quality. It's worth a shot at the very least.

(01-10-2017, 10:20 AM)Seraphina Said: There's a general manager opening? I miss writing results and segments.

Have you been a GM before? Are you new to us (the XWF) altogether or were/are you any other characters I might know? If you'd rather answer privately, feel free to PM me.

For those talking about RP and word limits, we've always allowed for people to come up with their own limits on shows. Before we had a show with a "hard limit" in place, people would sometimes negotiate with their opponents to come up with limits that fit them both/all. This can be done by simply exchanging some PMs with your opponent(s) as soon as the card is booked. I've never heard of a case of somebody agreeing to a limit but then going higher, so I'm pretty sure you guys can trust each other.

Alternatively, if you want to mention an RP and/or word count you'd like right from the get go, just mention those details in the opt-in thread for that show. That way, staff will know what you're looking for and can usually accommodate. Savage Saturday was not created for the purpose of having limits, but rather to separate the more traditional RPers from the people who enjoy seeing sick ass shit happen in shows and RPs... the RP and word limits were just a random addition and agreed upon by me to give the fed variety, even though I typically oppose having an entire show with limits because having limits paints the illusion that numbers (of RPs or words) actually matter, or that "maxing out" by hitting the full limit should somehow boost your chances of winning. I'm not sure if that impression has caught on around here as of late, but given enough time, it usually happens in a fed or show with limits.

I feel like I'm rambling at this point so I'm going to get back to what I was doing. (not porn)

(01-10-2017, 05:24 PM)Blackass Shane <img src="https://i.imgur.com/pUgtAVa.gif"> Said: (not porn)

liar

Shane, I get your point, but I don't agree. I like the hard RP limits. If you reach out to your opponent suggesting certain RP rules, you have no guarantee that they'll accept. That's not comforting. Especially if it was a big match, I doubt that my opponent would necessarily agree with my terms. That's inconvenient and it feels like a step back, not forward. That's just my stance.

I can just do Warfare for a while if it's easier

(01-10-2017, 05:24 PM)Blackass Shane <img src="https://i.imgur.com/pUgtAVa.gif"> Said:

(01-10-2017, 10:20 AM)Seraphina Said: There's a general manager opening? I miss writing results and segments.

Have you been a GM before? Are you new to us (the XWF) altogether or were/are you any other characters I might know? If you'd rather answer privately, feel free to PM me.

For those talking about RP and word limits, we've always allowed for people to come up with their own limits on shows. Before we had a show with a "hard limit" in place, people would sometimes negotiate with their opponents to come up with limits that fit them both/all. This can be done by simply exchanging some PMs with your opponent(s) as soon as the card is booked. I've never heard of a case of somebody agreeing to a limit but then going higher, so I'm pretty sure you guys can trust each other.

Alternatively, if you want to mention an RP and/or word count you'd like right from the get go, just mention those details in the opt-in thread for that show. That way, staff will know what you're looking for and can usually accommodate. Savage Saturday was not created for the purpose of having limits, but rather to separate the more traditional RPers from the people who enjoy seeing sick ass shit happen in shows and RPs... the RP and word limits were just a random addition and agreed upon by me to give the fed variety, even though I typically oppose having an entire show with limits because having limits paints the illusion that numbers (of RPs or words) actually matter, or that "maxing out" by hitting the full limit should somehow boost your chances of winning. I'm not sure if that impression has caught on around here as of late, but given enough time, it usually happens in a fed or show with limits.

I feel like I'm rambling at this point so I'm going to get back to what I was doing. (not porn)

Gay porn counts

These are all great comments guys, and I appreciate all the feedback.

As far as GM openings, I'm of the opinion that there's probably ALWAYS an opening. Shane has a lot more experience than I do as far as determining who makes a good one, but nobody is infallible (remember, he picked me. what a .)

I think it can be good to have different types of people on a staff because new opinions are always good. There has to be a sense of commitment to the fed though, and a feeling that you can really get on with everyone. Trust me, that second one is tougher than you think. Sometimes I just want to be like "Fuck you, McBride, you suck dick and are also fat," but then I remember that I have to pretend to like McBride.

You know what I mean?

Rp limits for the win!

(01-10-2017, 06:43 PM)Talia Areano Said: Rp limits for the win!

I feel as though in order for a member of the Areano family to NOT no-show an event, the RP limit would need to be set at zero.

(01-10-2017, 05:58 PM)Thomas Nixon Said: Shane, I get your point, but I don't agree. I like the hard RP limits. If you reach out to your opponent suggesting certain RP rules, you have no guarantee that they'll accept. That's not comforting. Especially if it was a big match, I doubt that my opponent would necessarily agree with my terms. That's inconvenient and it feels like a step back, not forward. That's just my stance.

The limit/no limit debate is one that has existed for over a decade in e-fedding, and both sides do have a solid set of points in their favor. I don't think a system exists or can be implemented that would fully please both sides in the same fed on the same show, but we can try.

Your concerns are very valid and what I'd do in those cases is probably announce, in advance right when I opt in for a show, that "I want an RP limit of X with a word limit of X on each rp." Come up with whatever numbers you want and most likely you will get them when that card gets booked. I can't imagine a situation where someone opts in, requesting a limit, but then gets put in a no limit match.

One option we could do is have an option added to everybody's account that tells us if they prefer limits, no limits, or are equally cool with either. Or perhaps a dropdown option on peoples roster thread. This would help staff better determine good opponents for the people who specifically request a limit on any given week.

There's also the chance we'll stay on the 2 show schedule and none of this will matter anyway but it's healthy to get these ideas and opinions flowing.

Great ideas

(01-10-2017, 06:48 PM)Blackass Shane <img src="https://i.imgur.com/pUgtAVa.gif"> Said:

(01-10-2017, 06:43 PM)Talia Areano Said: Rp limits for the win!

I feel as though in order for a member of the Areano family to NOT no-show an event, the RP limit would need to be set at zero.

Make it 1/2 and you have a deal.

Keep the shows but have set rosters? The Uni champ should be able to wrestle for either show but basically make Savage what Monday Madness used to be, newbies and part timers who want a relaxed schedule on Savage. Full timers and experienced RPers on WW.

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Gilmore's idea is cool, to add to it how about warfare one week and savage the next? That way you keep both shows, but lighten the schedule for the staff.

(01-10-2017, 11:05 PM)Dark Warrior Micheal Graves Said: Gilmore's idea is cool, to add to it how about warfare one week and savage the next? That way you keep both shows, but lighten the schedule for the staff.

While this isn't necessarily a bad idea, we would need to go back to what Shane said:

(01-10-2017, 05:24 PM)Blackass Shane <img src="https://i.imgur.com/pUgtAVa.gif"> Said: Savage Saturday was not created for the purpose of having limits, but rather to separate the more traditional RPers from the people who enjoy seeing sick ass shit happen in shows and RPs...

Now, we wouldn't have to go back to it exactly, but we'd need to have to come up with some significant things to make the alternating shows different from each other.

One of the main differences right now (from what I can tell) is the RP limit and lack thereof for Warfare, not to mention Warfare being every two weeks, giving you more time to put up more RPs. We could come up with other ideas to make them different.

The idea someone suggested of a split roster could be combined with the alternating shows. So both Warfare and Savage come with a two week deadline, so technically, Vincent would only have to do one show a week as opposed to three shows every two weeks. But for each show's roster, they only get one show every two weeks. That would force writers who want to continue to be active (and who don't want an RP limit) to post more than 3 RPs over two weeks, or to post less, but spend more time on it. It definitely has advantages, but I'm sure there are also many disadvantages as well.

In the end, I'm good with whatever is decided, I'm just spitballing because I feel like that's what this thread is for.

I like the idea of a roster split, but do we have enough people to opt in for each show?

(01-10-2017, 11:37 PM)Dark Warrior Micheal Graves Said: I like the idea of a roster split, but do we have enough people to opt in for each show?

Interesting idea. But then you are restricted to one.

Im sure there are enough people though.

I am a huge proponent of the idea of hard RP limits.

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(01-11-2017, 06:57 AM)RADICALRENO Said:

(01-10-2017, 11:37 PM)Dark Warrior Micheal Graves Said: I like the idea of a roster split, but do we have enough people to opt in for each show?

Interesting idea. But then you are restricted to one.

Im sure there are enough people though.

I don't think a full roster split is necessary. Plus the times I have seen it attempted before never lasted long. Too many people interact with one another and they bleed together almost immediately. Plus you end up with a "Warfare Champion" and a "Savage Champion," ostensibly on the same level. Essentially two different feds. I would prefer we keep it as all one roster, though certainly you are allowed to only appear on one show. Our opt in system is completely voluntary. Very, very, VERY rarely would I force-book anyone to fill up a show. All it leads to is people not showing up anyway.

Alternatively what if along with the hard limit on RPs, Savage competitors also had to write their own matches? You could even add the matches to the grading when deciding a winner. That would take some work off of the writing team and allow the show to continue.

At the same time you could toss around the idea of making Savage a bi weekly special. Like a mini ppv or internet exclusive show. Allow one week for RPing and a week for match writing. Something of that sort.

(01-11-2017, 09:07 AM)Dark Warrior Micheal Graves Said: Alternatively what if along with the hard limit on RPs, Savage competitors also had to write their own matches? You could even add the matches to the grading when deciding a winner. That would take some work off of the writing team and allow the show to continue.

At the same time you could toss around the idea of making Savage a bi weekly special. Like a mini ppv or internet exclusive show. Allow one week for RPing and a week for match writing. Something of that sort.

Oh man, can you imagine a guy like Gilly writing his own match?

The bi-weekly thing is a possibility. One thing that seems to hurt us on Warfare with the every two week format is we get guys who are excited and opt in, but then they have to wait forever to start writing and seeing results. I have seen some new guys vanish in between the time they opted in and when the card itself goes up. That always sucks.

We will figure it out, there are a lot of good options.

(01-11-2017, 09:07 AM)Dark Warrior Micheal Graves Said: Alternatively what if along with the hard limit on RPs, Savage competitors also had to write their own matches? You could even add the matches to the grading when deciding a winner. That would take some work off of the writing team and allow the show to continue.

At the same time you could toss around the idea of making Savage a bi weekly special. Like a mini ppv or internet exclusive show. Allow one week for RPing and a week for match writing. Something of that sort.

Not many people can objectively write their own match especially ones who havent written matches before. I think the way we do things is good, the voluntary opt ins for both shows, those of us who enjoy limits have savage, those of us who dont have warfare, and you can go back and forth for a challenge. Writing matches we just all have to do what we sign up for and have it in on time. I think if someone no shows on results they should be docked xbux and left off the next card. Maybe that would provide incentive?

Just an idea

I think if we can accommodate everyone on one show, we should. Savage was designed to be an alternative to Warfare in terms of style, both aesthetic and rp parameters. If that aesthetic style has all but vanished, implementing specifics for matches on Warfare to have those limits is easy, as Shane pointed out. Frankly, if it makes things simpler for GM and player alike, it should happen.

I think we should make Warfare weekly, with the Savage Hour that was mentioned. Kinda like how when WCW was bought out by WWF, they gave them a slot, or like how they presented Sunday Night Heat. Have people opt in and mention if they want Savage Hour, with rp limits and a more XTREME environment/content. I think this would accomodate everyone for the most part. And adding to this, we could have a Shove-it special every month, when we don't have ppv's. Just an added idea. ^__^

The issue is biweekly works really well for those of us who work full time and have family obligations. I think the current format is great, we just need more help producing it all on a weekly basis based on dependibility. Either another GM or Admin to help on one or both full time, or maybe we have it set like, every savage the second match is chaos to write, third is reno, fourth mcbride, gilly no touchy, ect. So there is never any debate.

Right now Savage provides the weekly show with limits people like and Warfare the biweekly unlimited others prefer. I love how top guys still compete on Savage with new people it helps set a nice tone for them to see the production and quality while learning the fed... We just need to all write results, really. We have tons of people here, this seems like a silly issue to potentially end a show over not helping produce shows enough. Doesnt it?

(01-11-2017, 01:07 PM)Reeve Alexandra Gordon Said: I think we should make Warfare weekly, with the Savage Hour that was mentioned. Kinda like how when WCW was bought out by WWF, they gave them a slot, or like how they presented Sunday Night Heat. Have people opt in and mention if they want Savage Hour, with rp limits and a more XTREME environment/content. I think this would accomodate everyone for the most part. And adding to this, we could have a Shove-it special every month, when we don't have ppv's. Just an added idea. ^__^

Biweekly is awesome though, lets epic matches happen and builds intrique... look at the main event this week, me and nixon are chopping wood over here but because there is a week left still anything can happen with chaos or either of us still, that is harder to do in one week... among other reasons.

Oh trust me I have something planned I am dealing The Savage but don't worry I will not disappoint

(01-11-2017, 04:33 PM)Chris Chaos Said: Oh trust me I have something planned I am dealing The Savage but don't worry I will not disappoint

I have no doubts. Was just saying 2 weeks makes a lot more possible in a match like that.

Once upon a time, on Madness, I used to split the show into 3 hours because the roster and card were absurdly large. Not unlike Shanes potato. You could follow a similar formula and go to one show. 1st hour I did quick results. 1 paragraph summary followed by "The Big Finish" where you could still leave the option for segs to be included. You could then follow that up with the Savage hour where potentially the TV/Hart titles would be a staple. A bit more in depth on the matches but not over the top. Then the main event hour. Your top 3 or so matches where you can go all out slobber knocker events.

It alleviated a lot of pressure off me when I ran Madness. I remember worrying that people wouldn't like the quick results idea but I never had any complaints about it.

Madness was the IT show back then. Never the flagship, but always the best. ?

As far as the limits, you can easily book it that way. Maybe the first half follows the Savage guidelines and so forth. Those that don't want to get booked every week, don't have to be, but I definitely do like having 2 weeks to RP.