Recently I have been hearing of an MMA fighter by the name of Fallon Fox who was once a man now a women fighting other women now. I feel as though this would be cheating in a sense. Even in golf a transgendered has to participate with the gender they started out with. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

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Well if they are legally a woman then nobody can stop her.

But how can you legally become a woman? Sure you have a vag and tits now but donsn't her/his body produce testosterone and not estrogen? I just feel like she/he would have a very unfair advantage. But your argument seems valid if she is a legal woman dosn't sound like she can be denied unless Dana White just says no...

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A man can legally become a woman when he completes a sex change. The best way I can describe it is transgender people have been sent to prison and made to live with men because they are legally a man because they have not completed their transformation. But those who have become a woman legally are housed with other women. The state and/or federal courts have final say though. And it wouldn't be up to Dana White or any other promoter. It'd be up to the athletic commission in that particular state.

Yeah I guess I shoulda said up to Lorenzo Fertitta to book this new lady

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Yeah, its complete and utter b.s. Utter b.s. The women who fought her didn't know what the score was and they said they'd never felt someone as strong as her. Its just not fair, bottom-line.

A long time ago, my coach had me wrestle with a woman named Lauren Wolf, who was training for the world championships at a time when I was a high school sophomore with a .500 record. Same size, same weight, huge gulf in skill. My coach wanted me to wrestle her because of my physical strength; he thought I'd give her a better work-out than the other guys that were there. She never scored on me, in spite of getting the drop on me several times. I mean, she got in DEEP on her shots, but just couldn't finish anything.

I can think of a few other high-level women I've rolled with, in grappling or in wrestling, and you know, its just, the strength advantage is so, so vast. Estrogen treatment or no, I really doubt that's something you can just turn around.

I mean, if she wants to fight women, then the women she's fighting should be able to do steroids or something.

I mean, personally, I don't think its fair at all.

I tihnk it's completely fair.

Makes that boring sh!t more interesting.

LOL, more interesting doesn't=fair.

Not okay with it, if you want to be a chick and put yourself at a disadvantage by fighting men then whatever. But the other way around is trying to gain an upper hand.

I recently read about this myself and was a little shocked that she is allowed to compete in the female division. You see they can take off the twig and berries that make her the man, but at the end of the day it doesn't particularly change their build. She still has the frame of a man which I hate bashing my own sex in saying this, but it's no surprise that men are physically stronger than women, so I'm not really sure how this is fare for the female division. However if there was a vote and the women excepted her into their division then at the end of the day its fair game.

Amber

(03-29-2013, 09:15 AM)Sarah Saint James Said: I recently read about this myself and was a little shocked that she is allowed to compete in the female division. You see they can take off the twig and berries that make her the man, but at the end of the day it doesn't particularly change their build. She still has the frame of a man which I hate bashing my own sex in saying this, but it's no surprise that men are physically stronger than women, so I'm not really sure how this is fare for the female division. However if there was a vote and the women excepted her into their division then at the end of the day its fair game.

Amber

Cain Velasquez said it perfectly, she still has the bone structure of a man which is built for combat more than a woman's. Her body is naturally pre-disposed to being stronger and suitable for punishment. Her jaw/chin are going to be naturally stronger which means she'll be able to take a punch much better as well. Bullshit imo.

Send anyone you want, but don't send anyone you want back.

Well, it's a bit more complicated because when a male transitions to female there is a lot more involved than just a few odd surgeries. Basically every transwoman starts with a pill cocktail that stops all production of testosterone and replaces it with estrogen. The person experiences a decrease in muscle mass, because the Testosterone isn't strengthening it up anymore. their fat gets redistributed to the hips, butt and breasts. the final result after 5-10 years of estrogen is a body almost identical to a female body. Transwomen have less muscle mass than men and have a bit more of weaker bones, but not terribly weak, just female level of weak. If a transwoman has had the bottom surgery, then no testosterone will ever be produced in that body ever again... no testicles does that, but estrogen has to be taken via pills or shots because ovaries can not be created in a human body... just yet.

The only advantage a transwoman might have would be a bigger bone structure. But then, that's only a real advantage if you've got the male muscles to power it.

As far as the science is concerned she is as real a woman as any other woman on the planet. All fetuses start as a default female, so yes boys, you were once girls, which is why men have nipples, because they're left over from the female times in the womb. To become a male the fetus gets a hormone bath from the mother which changes the external genitals from vagina to penis, and yes, your penis is just a giant clit. But the first hormone bath only changes the external genitals. A second hormone bath is required to change the fetus brain into a male brain. For transgender women, that second hormone bath never happened and they end up being born females with male genitals, because their brains never got changed from female to male. Most transwomen end up hiding their feelings that something isn't right until they're past 18. They pretend to act like boys and most people never know that they have a female brain. Since they hide for so long they have to endure the male puberty and end up looking just like any other guy out there. But many of them eventually realize they should never have had the male genitals and they seek out treatment to make their bodies match their brains. That process of matching body to brain is called transition, which involves cutting of any further testosterone production and replacing it with estrogen. They basically have a second puberty of growing breasts, wider hips and decrease of body hair. Their muscle mass significantly decreases without testosterone and by the time the transition period is over their bodies are almost identical to any naturally born female.

But from what I understand is that Fallon Fox is still pretty early in transition, so her muscle mass might still be a bit high for a female. Actually, based on what I read on wiki, it only says she's had the surgeries, nothing about hormones... which if that's the case, she's effectively a male. But I think its pretty unlikely for anyone to be able to get the surgeries without already being on hormones. So my best guess is that she is on hormones, but it might be a bit early for her and she still has some extra muscle mass that gives her an advantage.

One would think there are doctors monitoring her to see if her capabilities are more in line with a male or female and then the promotion deciding where she can fight based on the doctor's reports. Also wikipedia says she is closely monitored by Olympic Athlete standards for transwomen.

I think its best left to the people who allow her to fight whether she fights with the men or women.

Thought his name was CHADD?

I'm pretty skeptical on the science of it. For one thing, her opponents have all said that she was the strongest person they've ever gone up against. For another thing, legendary female bodybuilders such as Iris Kyle, Bev Francis and plenty of other top-level women bodybuilders who have taken steroids for years and years are still way, way, way weaker than 99% of amateur male bodybuilders and 100% of successful amateur male bodybuilders. And I know they take all sorts of estrogen blockers and such.

As far as testosterone production, all women produce testosterone, just not at the same level of men. And its not the only factor in muscle development. You've got stuff like myostatin, for example, the protein that regulates muscle growth, etc.

Oh, and state athletic commissions are the most corrupt institutions in sports. Nothing to trust or respect, really. Heck, Japanese combat sports are much more strictly regulated and they don't have any state athletic commissions. Just serious self-regulation.