Folks, I think the time has come to make the XWF a bit more palatable to the efed community as a whole. We've seen a lot of great people get on board in the last few weeks, a lot of old friends coming back for another serving, new faces, etc.

One thing I think when it comes to XWF is that we can be a bit intimidating to people. Not because we're so amazing or so scary, but because the writing workload seems huge. The efed game has evolved over the years into something it wasn't before. Back in the older days, and even as recently as the last 5-10 years, fedding was a free for all with huge RP numbers, huge word counts, and so on. These days, not so much. People look for lighter workload and higher social presence. Less isolationism and more integration with things like Twitter, Discord, so on and so on.

I want XWF to be welcoming to EVERYONE. The ANARCHY brand is a part of that. Adjusting what we do on Warfare and Savage is another.

Here's MY ideas, with brief rationale behind each one. I would LOVE to hear your thoughts.

1) WARFARE will continue to be our flagship show. It will stay bi-weekly. BUT... I think it's time to do away with "no limit" RP counts. What works best and what's seen most frequently (that I can tell anyway) is a 1 RP per week schedule. This would mean in the 2 week cycle, each RPer does 1 RP the first week and 1 the second. We'd have what's known as a "soft deadline" at the end of the first week, so the first would have to be up by then with the second up any time after. You could do both in the first week if you really wanted to, that doesn't matter. But it would only be the two. And we wouldn't want to see that first one being made as a "response" RP in any way to the opponent's work in the same cycle (meaning you don't wait for your opponent to go first and then respond directly to that RP in your own). You could respond to their first one in their second, if you wanted. At first I thought a word cap would be in place here too, but I think just the RP amount is enough. I don't think people are really going to drop 10,000 worders any time soon, and if they do, well, I guess maybe we can revisit that.

2) In turn, SAVAGE would continue to be weekly, but with the same rules - which means only 1 RP per person. Again, no word limit. Essentially you'd have the same workload as a WARFARE player, just more frequent shows and less RPing per opponent. The main reasoning here is that there are people who prefer a 2 week, 2 RP format, and some who prefer it this way. We'll have both.

3) There WILL still be the OPTION of the old school "wild west" style that XWF has always had as its bread and butter. I'm sure we'll come up with a good name for it, but essentially you can say "hey this time around I'm in the mood to go all out and want a no restrictions match." We can do those on either show, but the timeframe won't change. Probably no more than one per show. Keep in mind these changes will also give the GMs a bit of a break with reading and judging and give more time for producing content and results. The option for the old way will still be in play, it just won't be the default.

4) The UNIVERSAL TITLE will still be defended under those "no limit" rules. I believe the Uni is special. It should stand apart from the rest of the titles and be harder to achieve. This ensures that someone who wants to get a crack at the big gold has to step up. We'd more than likely see this on WARFARE rather than SAVAGE, to give an even bigger hurdle. I know there are a lot of people on this roster right now that can handle that sort of thing here and there, but this way it won't be the norm.


Guys, I want to know what you think. I believe it's the right way to go, but I know XWF has always been an "anything goes" environment and a lot of people might prefer it that way. My logic is simple. This is less work for everyone, more attractive to a broader range of people, AND as a bonus, we can completely ditch the confusing as hell RP anti-flood rules that we currently employ. They simply wouldn't be moot (outside of the Uni matches and the wild options, of course.)

I want XWF to hit a boom period like it's never seen. I want people flooding the gates to be a part of our little family. I want people who can't handle writing more than 1,000 words a week to have a home here, as well as people who want to go crazy.

Now... let me hear it!

Thanks.

I think limiting to 1 rp for Savage eliminates any hope of fun back and forth between characters/opponents. I'm not really against it though, because myself I'd prefer 3 RP, no world limit standard across the board (which I'd request when opting in if that option still exists at that point), except ppv's which I think ought to be Wild West style, as you put it. Just as special as the Universal title is, PPV's ought to be equally special and less throttled.

One thing I'm thinking about, and maybe y'all have discussed it, maybe you haven't, is sort of a Champions Choice for rp limits in title matches. To me, that'd sort of bring in the "champions advantage" aspect into play. Just an idea I thought worth mentioning on the subject.

EDIT: I can certainly see where it would help a lot of people. Limited to 1 rp would sort of contain them from blowing through whatever arcs they're working on at a more rapid pace, not to mention almost entirely eliminate potential burnout.

Good thoughts, thanks.

Part of what I think is actually helpful about limits of that it takes away the reliance on that back and forth. Again, the options would still exist for different things, but as a week by week default I think this standard makes people better at being succinct and balancing, rather than just throwing trash talk back and forth.

Also, in regards to story, there are still going to be CD boards for story purposes.

The champions challenge is intriguing, I've often tried to think of a way that the champions advantage could be translated to fedding.

Count me as on board for most all of this. I think it will serve the Fed well, and increase quality across the board.

But as far as Savage goes I would prefer to see it go back to the strict 2k 3Rp per week limit, maybe even knock those down to a 1k word limit and a show focused more on trash talk development.

Bit either way. The warfare limits are a great idea in my opinion

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my loves:
[spoiler]

What about those whos ur rping against who mid way kill of there character?

NOW BE MY BITCH ASS HOLE!!!!!!!!!!

I know it’s been a minute since I’ve done any actual rp’ing, but here’s what has worked for me in the past. 2-3rps per match, 5k limit. That’s just me tho. As for champions Advantage I like that, but there still needs to be limits. What used to happen for the Universial title it was 5rps unlimited, but the title was hardly put on the line during the week, so it was almost strictly PPV’s and the rare one off special show. I like the different limits for shows, once you get that under control and tweaked just right it’ll be amazing for everyone

Preface: I'm just a career midcarder who is far more useful in a supportive role than anything else, and as such may not have much in the way of credibility. That being said:

I have been writing closely with Vinnie for close to two years, and the MAIN reason I never brought someone to his fed was the sheer amount of work load. In fact, my thinking process going into this tournament was this: "One or two 3k promos from Sar per match? I can add that to my workload!" And then the PPV happened and I found myself in a situation of I and my opponents, particular Lux, killing ourselves in order to stay on par with one another. Yes, we all used to write like crazy back in the day, but that was before things like relationships, kids, jobs, and the like. And while once upon a time I was loathe to even think about any kind of limits, I have absolutely reversed how I feel on that, and have grown to enjoy the different skillsets that a variety of limits requires to succeed. As such, I would be in favor of various word limits, particularly since there are plenty of people who, like me, would immediately pass on the fed as soon as they saw what was required of them in order to compete at PPVs.

Epilogue for Roxy: Please reference my preface.

I wouldn't become so restrictive so quickly. You're launching Anarchy, which seems to be 0 RPs. You're dropping Warfare to 2 RPs over two weeks, and you want to drop Savage to one RP per match? No limits is insane, but don't completely placate to old dudes like me. The last thing you want is for no one to RP for six days, then every one drops one on the last day like what happened towards the end of WGWF.

(03-29-2019, 05:14 PM)Centurion Said: I wouldn't become so restrictive so quickly. You're launching Anarchy, which seems to be 0 RPs. You're dropping Warfare to 2 RPs over two weeks, and you want to drop Savage to one RP per match? No limits is insane, but don't completely placate to old dudes like me. The last thing you want is for no one to RP for six days, then every one drops one on the last day like what happened towards the end of WGWF.

I agree with this. I hadn't thought about it previously, but its a great point in my view. You're starting Anarchy which is almost what Dolly mentioned except that I don't think clearly TT or clearly story had been established. Maybe shrinking Warfare to 1 per week while adding Anarchy and keeping Savage as it is for now is the right course? If its something that management thinks needs to be across the board, maybe a slower rollout is best? I don't know. It does sort of alienate those that like to RP more frequently. Understandably, that's a dying breed, however over the years the XWF has always tried to cater to everyone rather than this style or that style, this frequent or that frequent.

I think a few of you are missing that Vinnie mentioned options for the shows. As for savage I would like to put 3 options in place to coincide with what Lane would like while also keeping what Savage has had since I took over, I don't want to speak for warfare since I don't have much to do with the show besides the occasional match writing and judging. But Savage will remain mostly unchanged besides possibly adding a 1 RP option. Anarchy is Lanes baby, so I dont have much input there, but I don't think it'll be a 0 RP show.

Lacklan and Lux have proved that unlimited RP limits do have there advantages and there place within the XWF (whilst also adding a ton of extra work in judgements, thanks for that lol) but besides this PPV people do mostly stick to 1-3 RPs weekly and bi-weekly. So, I'm on board for said changes but I know we will try do what we can, within reason, to accommodate everyone here. Be it a special request for no limits and so on.

It seems strange to me that everyone seems to want the show with LESS time to RP to have more RPs in it...

It's all definitely food for thought though. I am sure we will reach some sort of compromise here.

One note to Cent's point - most people wait til the last day or last two days anyway. It's a curse.

Oh! And congrats Sarah! I didn't realize you got promoted to midcarder!

(03-29-2019, 06:29 PM)"Loverboy" Vinnie Lane Said:

Oh! And congrats Sarah! I didn't realize you got promoted to midcarder!

How many midcard titles do YOUR characters have right now? THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT

(03-29-2019, 06:29 PM)"Loverboy" Vinnie Lane Said: It seems strange to me that everyone seems to want the show with LESS time to RP to have more RPs in it...

Based on my own preference, I like the more frequent aspect of Savage compared to Warfare, but I have literally zero desire to be limited to 1 post. I'm not sure if that's where others thoughts are on that. I can sit and write 1 rp that I decide to split into 2 or 3 due to its length in about 2 hours. If I was no longer able to split them, those fuckers could become ungodly long and nobody wants that. Further, I'd feel like too long a post and I'd need to trim things out and that's not that fun to me. I'd much rather break them up into smaller chunks because in my own view, things were always easier to digest in smaller doses rather than some long ass 4 or 5k word post. Just my personal preference I guess.

Just want to reiterate because I am a little lit #gobigblue

I think the idea of restricting Warfare is a great idea and will open the doors to more newcomers. Listen, I'm biased, I work about sixty hours per week, four kids and a wonderful lady I really like giving my free time to but besides that at least just for me I think it will help will the proverbial "burn out " that hits anyone from time to time.

I think about Lux and Lacklan, Jesus Christ its a pitty any of those two would have to lose that back and forth. I remember going 9 fullthroated RPS in a PPV a few years ago and just honestly didn't have much in the tank left.

I think it would improve quality and participation and less load on judges, I've been on that side of it too, so yeah.

I'm a fan of these ideas with a champions advantage being a great idea too.

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Tranquility: For Old Times Sake
Manifest Victory

my loves:
[spoiler]

(03-29-2019, 04:55 PM)drezdin5788 Said: What about those whos ur rping against who mid way kill of there character?

What the fuck am i, chop fucking liver !?
So my shit that comes outta my mouth dont mean nothing jack?

NOW BE MY BITCH ASS HOLE!!!!!!!!!!

Alright. I'm going to side with Duke here. I prefer a good three rp tri-fecta when I'm formulating a story. I like to break things up and carry stuff over. There are times when I have done one or two rps but that was either by choice, given the circumstances of what I wanted to relay at the time, or I couldn't find the right hook or groove cause for me, writing stories is like composing music in a way, if it doesn't have the right flow or balance, it's crap and I can't commit to its creation, or there were random other unforeseen reasons (brain fart, work, family obligations, etc...). To be restricted to a single, solitary rp, quite frankly would make me want to die, lol. I know, so dramatic, right? Anyway, before I returned to the XWF last year, I was in 2 other feds that had a one rp limit. I hated it. I told Shane how much I hated it. Frequently. So much so that I made the choice to quit the last one and start writing a book instead. Then he made the call to invite me back and I was happy. I like the option of being able to do more than a single rp. I wouldn't sign up for shows that only allowed me to do a sole piece of material. And eventually I'd lose interest altogether. Not trying to sound like a downer or an asshole but that's honestly how I feel. I think the concept of only writing a single, solitary piece of material, per rping cycle for a show is fair to try out but maybe test it out before going gung ho and altering everything? Maybe take things slow? What's the rush, right? I mean, everything is worth a try, some people might really enjoy only writing one rp but for me, I don't dig that jive. I need the option of branching out a story over a set of rps, otherwise I feel like I'm being forced and that kills the creativity. Tenfold. Sure there's the option of CD stuff but that's not the same as coming up with adventures on a whim, it's just not. That's the type of writer that I am and I know I am not the only one.

2x Universal Champion (First reign was less than a day though, lol. Due to Sebastian Duke cashing in his briefcase.)
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3x Triple Tag Team Champion
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(03-29-2019, 10:54 PM)drezdin5788 Said:

(03-29-2019, 04:55 PM)drezdin5788 Said: What about those whos ur rping against who mid way kill of there character?

What the fuck am i, chop fucking liver !?
So my shit that comes outta my mouth dont mean nothing jack?

No one knows what you mean.

My question to those who are concerned with story arcs:

Why do you feel the entire story has to take place in the same match?

(03-29-2019, 06:27 PM)Atticus Black Said: I think a few of you are missing that Vinnie mentioned options for the shows. As for savage I would like to put 3 options in place to coincide with what Lane would like while also keeping what Savage has had since I took over.

I think this is one of the cool aspects of current day XWF - the ability to opt in for whatever workload you deem desirable. So, if what Vinny is proposing lines up with this, then absolutely. I like giving people more choices, and putting people in a position to succeed. I would never go after the Uni Title expecting to do 14 RPs, but if someone wanted to challenge me to two or three RPs to test my metal, that would be interesting.

Ultimately, since I've come back, I've seen nothing but positive things out of the people who run this place, so whatever decision is made, I'd assume is being made for the better.

Why not have a RP limit, word cap for each title?

TV title (defended each Savage) 2 RP's 1500 word limit
Hart Title - 3 RP's 1000 word limit
X-treme Title 3 RP's - 1500 word limit

Then of course the no limits with Universal Title...

I don't know it sounded better before I typed it.

I want to preface this by saying that I allowed other people to respond first because I don't think I have been here long enough for my opinion on a matter such as this to hold much weight.

So, I don't personally like the idea of one RP per Savage. I understand the approach to make it easier to schedule for the RPers, however I'd argue it trades the ability to really banter more easily for the frequency of the show. I personally think Savage should have two RPs at least, but I might be wrong.(I think you could even limit the word counts to differentiate it from Warfare.)

As for Warfare, I don't mind the idea of one RP per week with no limits. I think it could work to keep Warfare as its own beast without feeling slow and boring.

Honestly, the good/bad thing about these changes if they're to come is that people with more time will be able to appear on more shows. That can be great, but I don't think I have to explain how overzealous users could abuse that.

Overall, I like the idea of making changes for the sake of supporting the writers here. It makes the most sense and I'll support it all the way, although I think the limits and RP numbers might need to be tweaked. I like John's idea, too, though for the Universal title, I'd stick with champ's choice.

"You can't run from yourself."

I burnt out hard as Engy and ended up angling the Uni off of him because I felt like I couldn't compete at that level for much longer. It absolutely does start to wear on you. And, like many of you, I to have a bevy of real life commitments (one and a half jobs one of which has weird as hell hours, a sick father I try to make time for, a significant other who's kind of long distance, various geek hobbies including running the show at my LCS for a card game, etc....).

My feeling after March Madness, and this is absolutely no slight against like Lacklan at all, but holy fuck I never want to do that again. Not ever. Like, yeah, it's my fault I let myself get sucked in again, but good God. It's also why I've only booked myself on Savage since starting up with Lux. Lux was going to be my PT (mostly retired) baby, but then that tournament happened.

I am all in favor of doing away with No Limits RP'ing. Let's face facts, hardly any of us are kids anymore who have nothing but free time to sit around and jack off on the internet. I am absolutely ok with any idea permutation of idea that does away with no limits RP'ing (although I am sympathetic to keeping the Uni that way). I would prefer there to still be some back and forth allowed, just maybe with word limits. For the record, I'm totally ok with Savage as it is now.

The administration here is one of the most responsive I've ever seen to the players, so I trust them to handle this well also, regardless of the tack they take.

I’d like to see something more along these lines:

Anarchy could have 2 options, one 1000k or 2500k word RP, for rookies and those wanting a lighter schedule
Warfare could have an option for 1 or 2 weekly RPs for a total of 2/4 for those looking to make a more connected story
Savage anything goes for people that wanna go HAM

My main concern is that trash talk/match relevance are going to be muted. I really don’t want to to have to read through 4000 words about vampire road trips without any actual talk of the match.

That said, I do understand and appreciate what you are attempting to do for the fed.

There's really no reason for relevance to take a hit... trash talk, maybe, but honestly I prefer seeing fresh, from the hip trash rather than replying and quibbling over minor details ("you said I lost THREE times but you're an idiot I only lost TWO!")

The SAVAGE guys want to keep their 1/2/3 options. That's fine by me.

What I think could be a good "meet in the middle" for WARFARE would be that you can do THREE roleplays in the 2 week window, BUT one of them HAS to be up in the first week. If it isn't, you're only going to be able to do one in that second week. I'm trying to think of ways that help alleviate sandbagging as much as possible as well. What we have seen a TON of is people waiting and dropping something on the penultimate day of the cycle just to be able to do two on deadline day. That's no good for anyone, including the people who have to judge and produce the show. What's the point of having 14 days to RP in if you're only using the last two?

I think a lot of times people try to wait as late as possible to try and rob their opponent of the ability to respond properly. If we have less of a "reply culture" then maybe that gets alleviated. I don't know.

I wasn't expecting so much blowback, honestly, because in general we aren't even seeing more than two or three RPs at a time anyway.

I'm cool with that concept for Warfare. So cool, I'm going to show my support and sign up for the following edition as Nathaniel.

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I also like that Warfare idea.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you’d still have the option to write as much as you want; it would just be a different medium. There is a HUGE lack of segments or storyline building here so as much as we want to talk about going back and forth with opponents and match relevancy, the game isn’t really a test of trash talking stamina and who can cut more promos in a week without getting stale.

If you have more to say after posting an RP, get on the News and Rumors board to talk your shit and see if your match suddenly gets pushed up the card due to “fan interest”. Write a segment. Make the Federweight important. Get on twitter. There are going to be plenty of options to stay active and involved and be rewarded, but right now 90% of the rosters energy goes to putting out a bunch of RPs and an occassional match, and as has been mentioned it’s VERY unlikely outsiders see that and say “yeah, I want to write RP’s every night/every other night”.

EDIT: Not to mention many of you are going to try and participate or staff on two if not three of the shows here... so... how much y’all really trying to pull off here?

I think a great idea would be to have anyone who signs up for any show to let everyone know, when they opt-in, what exact limits they'd prefer, both word count and rp limit. I LOVE going back and forth, and I think that's the best thing about any e-fed match. Just one rp per match for both competitors takes away the fun, in my mind. Also, maybe when someone new signs up for the fed, they could include their preferences for word and rp limits in their bio. AND, those that are already a part of the company could edit their bios to include this info. How does this idea sound?? :-/

it can't just be "whatever you want." There has to be a default, a standard. Every match being something different makes it harder for everybody.

Well, the bottom line for me is if you can only do one rp, that eliminates the trash talk aspect. Which, personally, is key... hoping I'm not the only one who agrees.

(04-01-2019, 02:57 PM)Kid Kool Said: Well, the bottom line for me is if you can only do one rp, that eliminates the trash talk aspect. Which, personally, is key... hoping I'm not the only one who agrees.

It does not remove the trash talk aspect at all. But it does alter the dynamic of it. It removes the back and forth but trash talk will still be present and relevant and important.

Yeah, I get ya man, but the thing is [personally] I've been doing this stuff for nearly two decades now, and it's like... if you don't resort to cheap tactics like Vinnie mentioned, back and forth is the most enjoyable part of this hobby. Going back and forth with my opponents over the years has always been key to perhaps not success, but simply the fun of it all. As long as people don't take shortcuts, it reminds me of the shit they've always done on televised pro-wrestling. Wrestling without back and forth just isn't the same...

...Does this make sense at alll?? :-/

It does and believe me the back and forth is my favorite part about it as a reader so I completely understand where you are coming from and it remains my biggest concern with these expected changes but ultimately Vince and the GM team are doing what we think is best for the fed's long term viability even if we don't love every aspect of the RP rules/guidelines. This is about bigger picture for us. I do think that the back and forth can still happen but maybe it won't be in rp's. Maybe it will be on the character development boards, maybe or twitter or other places.

Maybe we could make Anarchy the 'trash talk' brand, shorten word lengths down to 500-800 words or so, and allow for up to 2-3 roleplays each show? Have the Anarchy title follow the Federweight rules... maybe even make the Federweight belt the official Anarchy title..... does any of that make sense??

No.

(04-01-2019, 03:54 PM)Kid Kool Said: Maybe we could make Anarchy the 'trash talk' brand, shorten word lengths down to 500-800 words or so, and allow for up to 2-3 roleplays each show? Have the Anarchy title follow the Federweight rules... maybe even make the Federweight belt the official Anarchy title..... does any of that make sense??

Just thinking it would help with the whole "less rp work" initiative.

The title wasn't the focus, just the word limit and rp max.... but that's cool.

Having a word count sux b8g fat hairy goat dick.. I like it the way it was...

SUCK... MY... DICK!

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(04-01-2019, 06:22 PM)Peter Fn Gilmour Said: Having a word count sux b8g fat hairy goat dick.. I like it the way it was...

There was no word limit. Just a post limit. You haven't done more than 3 RPs in 10 years.

Uhh check that again chief.. I was a double champ a few times so did more than 3 rps.. Maybe not in one match but..

Yeah and

Life > xwf u dumbass

SUCK... MY... DICK!

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Former 13X Xtreme Champion
Former 6X Tag Champion
Former 2X Trios Champion
Former 2x Heavy Metal Weight Champion
Former Universal Champion

(04-01-2019, 11:47 PM)Peter Fn Gilmour Said: Uhh check that again chief.. I was a double champ a few times so did more than 3 rps.. Maybe not in one match but..

Yeah and

Life > xwf u dumbass

Better check your settings there Peter because it seems like you defaulted back into Aggro Douche.

There is a bit of hilarious irony in you citing Life > XWF when "arguing" against limits. See one of the many benefits of requiring less writing via limits would mean that you get to spend MORE time on LIFE and LESS time on XWF. Crazy right?