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X-treme Wrestling Federation » XWF OOC » Out Of Character (OOC) Board
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#1
02-17-2018, 02:43 PM

What can a guy do who is awful at trash talk? How could I improve on this? What are some helpful tips you guys use to trash talk efficiently? Also how important is trash talk? Is it absolutely need or can you just write stories?

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Muddy Waters (02-19-2018)
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#2
02-17-2018, 03:34 PM

Personally...I like the stories more. It actually shows more character than just trash talking. I'm terrible at it too, so I try to make up for it with a story.

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Muddy Waters (02-19-2018)
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#3
02-18-2018, 05:57 AM

I enjoy stories, and I enjoy the, pardon the pun, randomness of yours. They entertain me and that is a good things. I like entertaining stories but of course a story does not have to be comedy driven for it to be entertaining. I rather enjoy Erik Black's stories as well. Regarding trash talk, if you want to win matches in the XWF then you need to trash talk. It is extremely important. This is a wrestling federation after all and cutting promos on your opponent is a key part of this and any wrestling fed.

As for how to improve on trash talk I would read some of the feds better trash talkers, past and present and see what they do. Guys like Jim Caedus, The Engineer. Vinnie Lane(shhhh don't tell him I said his name) Sid Feder, John Madison, Doctor D'Ville, Mark Flynn, and Eli James.

Maybe you could punch yourself in the dick a few times to get angry and then use that anger to write. I don't really know what people do to get in the mind frame to trash talk, maybe ask some of the people I mentioned above that are still active.
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Muddy Waters (02-19-2018)
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#4
02-18-2018, 07:39 AM

Trash talk is easy. Good trash talk is hard. I appreciate the props from Milton, but I don't even think I'm one of the best at it here.

They key to good trash is making sure you're not just spouting off generic "I'm good, you suck" stuff. Especially if it's not true (ie. the person doing the trash has a record that's not so hot, etc...). The best trash talk is true, and points to real deficiencies in an opponent's character. I personally am not a huge fan of going line by line and picking apart everything someone says (I've done it, but usually when I'm hard up) but rather focusing on the big picture of what makes someone weak, what makes them vulnerable, and what makes them "not over" etc...

Good trash talk is also getting out ahead of yourself, and acknowleding what makes YOU weak or vulnerable, and why that's not a problem in this match or anymore in general.

I also encourage people to write like how someone would actually talk. Read what you wrote back to yourself and if it sounds like realistic naturally flowing dialogue it probably works.

Also, don't be afraid to push the boundaries of what trash talk is. It's ok to give your opponent a compliment. Some people avoid doing that like the plague and, for me, it just makes the piece look really try hard. Also, don't take yourself TOO seriously, that can make trash look kinda try hard too.

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#5
02-18-2018, 08:12 AM

I'm terrible with trash talk the first time around, random. Just aweful. But when I learn WHO the character I'm facing is, it makes trash talk come much easier. I think it's also best to make it your character. Anybody can do the typical "I'm gonna rip your fucking eyes out and skull fuck you to death" thing. But would random say something like that? With trash talk, I feel it's best to go with what your character would say as opposed to just talking shit for no reason and it could even be tied into a story. I once had a character who was a young rookie. Erik was training him. He was even more cocku than Erik. His trash talk consisted of completely burying his opponent with Erik telling him to calm down and that he isn't quite there yet. This made the stone cold type character more human and added depth even though the trash talk wasn't that great.

HEY LOOOK ARE ME I'S AND CUCKCOCK ALL DAYS DERRRRR HUH HUH HUH GKUG GLUG GIMME YOUR SPERM CELL!

My sig got edited to match my overly shitty behavior so now I can play tough guy asshole IC anywhere I go. Except at home where my mother will beat my o-ring to keep me in line.
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Muddy Waters (02-19-2018)
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#6
02-18-2018, 10:43 AM

I told Random this in person, but I'm going to put it here for anyone else that may have this question to see.

Trash talk isn't a requirement.

Rps are judged off of a few things, but the biggest one is relevance.

By far, the easiest way to make your work relevant is to trash talk, but it's not the only way.

I've personally seen Guppy Parrish win against very good trash talkers with a very good story and indirect insults.

I'd also point out the way that James Raven made every word that he wrote against me a targeted attack, not just in his closing trash talk, but through out the story.

Finally Neville Sinclair, and his history lesson that at first glance seemed to be about nothing in particular, quickly concluded into a sharp dig against my character.

Personally, I think that everyone should work on their trash talk and make it as good as you can, but there are other things that you can do to strengthen your rps other than just talk shit.
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#7
02-18-2018, 02:25 PM

Trash talk is not absolutely needed, but relevance is needed at some point within your work for the week even if it's not necessarily in every RP that week.

We don't have a public rubric for judging anymore because so much can vary from writer to writer, but these are the things I originally told the staff should matter... IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER...

Character development: You show us how your character has somehow evolved/changed during the week, or is evolving throughout a series of stories/weeks... or simply showing us more about that character and his/her background. Again, showing us the developments... not just having your character tell us in one paragraph.

Story telling: If you aren't cutting classic wrestling promos, you probably have "Story" instead. This is incredibly subjective but basically if a judge starts wanting to fast forward through your story, that's a problem. If we finish reading your story and wish it didn't end yet, or are genuinely looking forward to the next installment, you succeeded. If your story is intended to be humorous, is it making us laugh? If it's intended to be dark and disturbing, is it freaking us out? Etc.... etc...

Trash talk: Are you the type of trash talker who can be compared to The Rock, where you regularly come up with creative and entertaining insults for your opponents? Is it delivered SO well that it doesn't even matter if it's a blatant lie about your opponent? Or are you more of a quote killer, meaning you like to take what the opponent said and expose them for sounding like an idiot (or making them sound like one with your spin on their words)? Are you more of a narrative trash talker where you have things appearing in your narration and scenes that blatantly are meant to make fun of or expose the opponent, even if your character doesn't necessarily talk shit to the camera?

Classic promo delivery: If you aren't a storyteller, you can obviously use the style seen in most real wrestling promos and do more simple skits/interviews/etc... If you keep them creative and not repetitive, this should beat a storyteller whose story isn't as relevant to the XWF, since a classic promo is almost always "oozing relevance" as I like to say. If you can't do this, go for storytelling instead but remember relevance does help.

Entertainment value: Whatever you did, even if it's something totally crazy like just posting a Youtube video of you acting out in character, did we get a kick out of it? Is your RP packed with interesting and entertaining content, or do we have to sift through a lot of filler in order to pull out the truly entertaining aspects? Often times, shorter RPs are going to have a much easier time scoring higher here. Longer RPs can be packed with entertainment value, but I don't see it often.

WRITING ABILITY: Are you a good storyteller, good trash talker, and good entertainer but I'm finding sloppy errors in your RPs on a regular basis? That's a PROBLEM, and should hurt. Why? Because writing is the tool we utilize most here to deliver our characters. If we can't be bothered to proofread our work, or learn the differences between they're/there/their, your/you're, etc... we should need to be just about flawless in every other category we deliver if we're winning matches here. If you have sloppy writing errors in your narrative or trash talk, and your opponent successfully uses it against you in a creative IC way and is given a lot of material to work with as a result of your errors, you're probably screwed... or at least you should be. This category I know for a fact doesn't get looked at as thoroughly as it should right now, so we are going to be changing that ASAP. If you normally have 0-1 errors or sloppy narrative per RP, you will probably be ok even if your opponent tries to use this against you because they won't have much to work with. If you're having 2 or more errors on a regular basis, especially if we can tell it's just you being careless and not proof reading, expect to get bitten on the ass at some point in the near future. The only exceptions we MIGHT make is if we are pretty sure English is your second language, or you're young enough that it's clear you're still learning and improving in writing.

RELEVANCE is not a category in itself but simply is supposed to be a booster of sorts. Give us ZERO relevance the entire week, and your opponent will defeat you even if all they included was ONE sentence about you (relevance) in their entire week. You can write 9 RPs that have zero relevance, and 1 RP with relevance should always beat you. If you are able to incorporate relevance in more creative ways, or able to get your work to "ooze relevance" through your narration comments, story telling, etc... that means whatever you gave us that week should have an added boost. We are a wrestling company and your WRESTLER is supposed to be aware that they have a match coming up and it's supposed to seem like that's their top priority in life going into the match, otherwise how are they prepared?


A couple quick notes:
-Can a great, relevant storyteller beat a great trash talker? Yes. You don't NEED trash talk. You NEED to score highly in whatEVER it is you give us, and it has to feel like you belong in the XWF and aren't just giving us unrelated stories that some of us might find boring and pointless.

-Can a great trash talker (automatically relevant) beat a great storyteller? Yes, even if their RPs were 100% trash talk with NO narrative or scenes. If they literally tore your story to shreds and exposed you to be a fraud, laughing stock, or whatever it is they're trying to make you look like, they win. Do I think we have trash talkers who can do this successfully on the current roster? Honestly, maybe we have 1 or 2 right now but I'm not going to name names. They have massive amounts of XWF experience though. You need to be one of the top trash talkers in the entire game to do this, or just get lucky against an opponent who was really easy to shred with just straight talking.

Make sense?

I can't say if RPs are being looked at this way currently since I haven't been involved in judging lately, but if they're not, they need to start being judged this way ASAP. Any questions are welcome here or to me via PM.

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#8
02-18-2018, 02:51 PM

To touch on hat Shane said a little.

Nothing is really "required" of your content. But what makes trash talk so strong in promos is that it is automatically always relevant to your opponent and the match at hand.

We have a lot of good storytellers here, to the point where what makes one story better than another can really sometimes just be a matter of taste. But if the story has nothing to do with your opponent or your match, how could it really stack up to your opponent ripping into you verbally?

There are ways to make your story relevant to the match, for sure, but the easiest way to make sure everything you provide is relevant is to simply address your opponent directly. Now, we call it "trash talk" but it doesn't specifically have to be some stand up routine where you're just hurling insults. Those are fun, but maybe it doesn't fit your character. I spent a lot of time as a mega-babyface type character, and as a result my approach to discourse with the opponent was always more focused on how great Vinnie thought he was and how the fans were going to help him win, etc., rather than just insulting the other guy. It's a little tougher to make that sort of thing engaging and entertaining, but it's still 100% relevant.

As Shane showed above, there are a lot of things to look at in a standard RP, but probably the most decisive factor is also the most difficult to really describe - did I enjoy reading it? Did it stand out? Was it decisively just more entertaining than the other guy? Sometimes it's an easy call. Sometimes you can just get that feel right off the bat and say "oh yeah, he got this for sure." But there are a lot of times when it's close, and that's when we really start nitpicking into the categories that Shane listed. It's rare, but some matches have been so razor close that the guy with better grammar ended up winning.

Also, with that list Shane provided... if it were me, I'd probably combine Character Development with the Story category. If you tell me a story that does absolutely nothing for the character, then what's the point? Why is it even there?

Just something to think about.

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#9
02-19-2018, 06:08 AM

Linger-ra... fucking lean-gur

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