(08-13-2014, 06:57 PM)Eli James Said: Those who are so absorbed in science must explain everything is shallow. Science is all about observation. Science cannot explain a person's decision, the beauty of art or music, morality, etc. For example, morality stems from a person's belief.

Actually, yes, science can explain every single one of those things. A person's decision is based on brain chemistry. Neurons are electrically excitable cells that make the brain function like a computer. We have not yet unlocked all the mysteries of the brain and how thoughts occur organically but I assure you that we'll make significant progress when it comes to this during our lifetimes. There are countless books on music/art theory and why those sounds/images are considered beautiful. Perception can be explained and reasoning can be explained from a biological/chemical/physical perspective. Like I said, our brains are basically computers and nothing happens for no reason.

Quote:The Bible was written at several different times, by many different people, and eye witnesses or people living during the writing that could easily dispose it if the acts were not true. I see some things that go on in space as a miracle. Jupiter being the 'big brother' of Earth and how it slingshots asteroids is pretty cool. Plus the earth rotating and the sun still burning.. I see as miracles.

There are so many different cultures with written history and nearly none of those include things such as Noah's flood and much of the Old Testament. The Old Testament is very cut and dry in the way it describes the way the world was founded and a lot of the thought behind it can be considered antiquated or flat out refuted.

There was also a massive campaign by the Catholic Church to burn books that went against the interests of the Church so a lot of material that would hurt the church (insofar as first hand accounts) has been irrevocably destroyed. Not to mention that there is a ton of stuff underneath the Vatican that the general populace is unable to access. Also consider that the printing press didn't exist until the 15th century so the ability of literature to be produced was severely limited. Any book that needed to be reproduced needed to be done by hand. Considering the stranglehold the Church had on politics, it only makes sense that most of the efforts regarding printing were spent on reproducing the Bible. Any sort of person who tried to use reason and logic to counter the Bible was labeled a heretic... and a lot of those people were straight up killed for their beliefs.

By the way, regarding the Bible, it's pretty insane how much editing of the Bible occurred during history to fit political agenda. It's really tough to tell what was actually written during the time of Jesus and what was added in after. It doesn't "disprove" what we consider the Bible today... but the Bible as it it existed in 100 AD was a completely different document than the Bible Christians study today.

Quote:One person through at me the whole "talking snake in Genesis" deal. He was agnostic I believe. My response was, "Yes, I believe that. So do you." He responded, "How so?" I simple said, "I believe it happened then, in an instant. You believe over the course of billions of years, a snake eventually turned into a talking human rational thinking human being. You believe in a talking snake like I do, except yours needed billions of years to take place."

Well, humans didn't evolve from snakes and I don't think you'll find many anthropologists who believe that. Yes, we share a common ancestor (as human share an ancestor with any living matter). I'm not sure what your complete beliefs are regarding evolution but I do have to say that plenty of creationists are completely misinformed when it comes to basic evolutionary theory. You sound educated enough to be beyond complete denial, though. A lot of people need to see a monkey turn into a human in order to believe that evolution exists but they don't need to watch God create Earth to believe that happened. I think that's strange.

Quote:If there is no God, then life is ultimately meaningless without purpose. The only purpose we have is what we create for ourselves. There is no ultimate 'punishment' if you do wrong and never get caught. Justice is temporary.

If there is a God, then there are consequences are wrongs you do.. even if the justice system never gets you.

This sounds like backwards deduction to me. Since you want to believe that there are consequences for people doing things that are wrong, you theorize that God must exist as a way to justify your want. Scientific theory requires observation of something existing to create a position and it seems like your theory was created out of a desire to make that position true.

I do not think it's necessary for us to have a purpose and, honestly, I think that's more empowering than us being created by some omnipresent force. Through logic and through reason, humans are fully capable of developing a moral code ourselves. We are able to decide what's wrong and what's right and I think that same ability is what helped the authors of the Bible write what they wrote.